DES MOINES — Former Fox News host Tucker Carlson sparred with former Vice President Mike Pence over the war in Ukraine here Friday at the Family Leadership Summit. 

Pence opened the discussion with a joke: “I thought I was going to get off easy. I got on stage and there was no Tucker.”

He wasn’t. Within a minute of sitting down, Carlson immediately dove into asking if Pence thought Jan. 6 was an insurrection. 

“I’ve never used the word insurrection, Tucker, over the last two years, but it was a riot that took place at the Capitol that day,” Pence said of the 2021 attack. 

But it was Pence’s stance on Ukraine that proved to be the most controversial.

The two argued over whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s government was respecting religious liberty. While on Fox News, Carlson was frequently critical of Ukraine and U.S. support for the country in the war with Russia. 

Pence outlined his position saying, “I believe that it is in the interest of the United States of America to continue to give the Ukrainian military the resources that they need to repel the Russian invasion and restore their sovereignty.”

Those comments elicited boos from the audience — the first of the day. 

The exchange then escalated when Tucker continued to insist Zelenskyy had “arrested priests for having views they disagree with.” Pence repeatedly pushed back, saying he had asked religious leaders about this issue during his trip to the country in June and was told it was not happening. 

Carlson would not let Pence move on, continuing “I can’t let you glide over the question of the treatment of Christians and clergy.”

Pence cut in firmly, “The problem is you won’t accept my answer.” 

Pence has leaned into his support for Ukraine during his presidential run, distinguishing himself from some of his rivals — including former President Donald Trump and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — who have been far more critical of U.S. involvement there. 

In remarks to reporters after the interview with Carlton, Pence was asked if he was surprised by how much of the conversation he spent defending his support of Ukraine. 

“I’m really never surprised by Tucker Carlson,” he replied. 

He laid the blame for much of the audience’s disagreement with him on this issue at the feet of President Joe Biden. 

“The fact that Joe Biden has failed at [leading domestically and internationally], I think, has undermined the willingness of some conservative Americans, including conservative Christians, to otherwise stand behind our role as leader of the free world,” Pence said. “But look, I believe in leadership, not followership.”