Donald Trump said it himself OPM other people’s money but now for the first time since he won the Republican nomination seven years ago the New York Times reports Trump has spoken seriously about the possibility putting his own money into this race why well much of that OPM as he calls it is being used to pay for his criminal defense today as we said his lawyers were in court opposite Federal prosecutors to go over Discovery rules and limits if any on what Trump can say about the case from the times quote new Financial reports show that the former president’s various political committees and the Super PAC backing him views roughly 30 cents of every dollar spent so far this year on legal-related costs the total amounts to more than 27 million dollars in legal fees another investigation related bills in the first six months of 2023 that’s according to a New York Times analysis of federal records that amount includes payments to eight law firms getting more than a million bucks each just in the first half of this year and that amount could balloon as Trump’s cases head to actual courtrooms the times notes Trump’s complex political orbit is already spending more than it is taking in and tapping into money it raised years ago an unusual trajectory this far out from an election predictably Trump is upset suggesting on social media quote resources that would have into ads and rallies will now have to be spent fighting these radical left thugs which is a rich thing to say given Trump’s the reason he’s in this position in the first place well well well it is not the consequences of one’s own actions but that backward response is permeating the Republican Party listen to the accusation Congressman Byron Donald made but to a broader perspective what the Department of Justice is really doing is they want to believe Donald Trump dry they want him to use up so many campaign Resources with these these terrible phony indictments that it’s going to be hard for him to mount the challenge of the presidency and for the American people understand what this means this means that the Democrat Party in Joe Biden are using the power of government to basically turn the screws on their political opponent the irony it hits you like a shovel to the face falsely accusing President Biden of trying to subvert democracy by holding Donald Trump accountable for literally trying to subvert democracy the modern Republican party where everything’s made up and the points don’t matter and that is where we start this hour joining our conversation from The New York Times Congressional reporter Luke Broadwater plus voting rights attorney and founder of the site democracy doc at Mark Elias and writer at large for the bulwark and an MSNBC political analyst Tim Miller Luke we have your New York Times colleagues to thank for this reporting first get us more acquainted with just how cash trap Trump’s orbit is right now well he’s he is raising a lot of money so these indictments have been a boon to him from fundraising for from a fundraising perspective but his problem is 33 of it’s going immediately out the door to pay for for lawyers and his legal cases are just piling up I mean we’re going to have probably another one next week in Georgia and so he’s going to have four very serious criminal cases against him he’s going to have a lot of very high priced attorneys and he’s going to be spending not his own money right but the donations from a lot of small dollar donors across the country who are sending him money that is going right into the pockets of these you know well-heeled lawyers as they work to try to keep Donald Trump out of jail and he is spending more money than he’s taking in right now which is not a good place for any campaign to be in this in this um in this situation but you know every time there is a new charge or a new court case against him he can go right back back to that outrage machine and bring in those dollars from those Americans all across the country right and I know you say it for illustrative points the money does not go from the small dollar donors directly into the hands of all these attorneys talk us through this sort of complicated mesh of political entities that is in taking that cash and then spending it where is all this money coming from right well um you know there are a number of he has the save America pack he has a number of of uh packs that that he uses to to pay these lawyers right it’s not it’s not that uh Donald Trump himself is is paying he’s paying the lawyers at all so he’s relying on donations they come in generally to these packs and they go out to his uh to his uh to his attorneys recognize a little bit more about one of those bodies that Luke just referenced the save America pack I want to take a listen to what the January 6th committee taught us about that pack the claims that the election was stolen were so successful president Trump and his allies raised 250 million dollars nearly a hundred million dollars in the first week after the election on November 9th 2020 president Trump created a separate entity called the save America path most of the money raised went to this newly created pack not to election related litigation the select committee discovered that the save America Pac made millions of dollars of contributions to pro-trump organizations including one million dollars to Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows charitable Foundation one million dollars to the America First policy Institute a conservative organization which employs several former Trump Administration officials two hundred four thousand eight hundred fifty Seven dollars to the Trump Hotel Collection and over 5 million dollars to event strategies Inc the company that ran president Trump’s January 6 rally on the ellipse we understand special counsel Jack Smith scrutinizing the save America Pac trying to figure out if Trump’s advisors knew he’d lost before they were raising funds off lies about non-existent voter fraud so you have packed paying for illegal defense while also being part of the case itself I wonder if you have ever heard of that happening at this scale no nothing like this has ever happened before I mean let’s just be clear we’ve never had a president United States who’s tried to overturn Democratic elections we’ve never had a president United States indicted once no less three times and as you point out probably on his way to four times and we’ve never had a president as Shameless uh and as backed up by a Shameless party as Donald Trump and the Republican party as they milk and milk these donors into this pack remember Alicia the the beginning of this pack as that segment pointed out was to actually raise money to contest the outcome of the election well the money didn’t go to that the next purpose of the pack would be to support Republican candidates and it appears the money didn’t really much go to that it’s really going to enrich Donald Trump and his allies and that is really really a an absolute another indictment of where Donald Trump and the Republicans stand today Mark does Jack Smith have the power to freeze those funds so it’s a good question I mean there’s no question that Jack Smith from what we’ve read in the newspaper is investigating whether or not there was fraud in the collection of those funds and if he finds that there was criminal fraud then he could bring a forfeiture action to try to um to try to Forfeit and freeze and forfeit those funds whether he is going to do that or not I don’t know right now he’s got his hand full with two uh criminal cases whether he expands that or brings another one or expands the DC one to include allegations of mail fraud and wire fraud around the PAC fundraising we’ll have to wait and see Tim Miller I want to read you a little bit more from the times piece quote Trump aligned groups also paid legal bills for some White House aides who testified in the Congressional inquiry into the January 6th attack an arrangement that critics said was an attempt to influence their testimony Mr Trump’s advisors have denied the allegation Mr Trump has said the groups are simply trying to help friends and allies who’ve been caught up in politically motivated investigations in Tim Cassidy Hutchinson comes to mind for me I’m sure for you she had a Trump World lawyer representing her during the 1-6 committee’s investigation before firing that lawyer and suggesting on the record he had tried to influence her testimony that lawyer he has denied that allegation but I wonder as you trace this money if that is a concern for you in this case now I mean of course I they’re using this as a slush fund uh to try to influence folks I think it was also true of Sarah Matthews in addition to Cassidy Hutchinson who testified uh before the January sex committee and uh you know to Mark’s Point none of this money appears to be going to the stated purpose of this pack and and you know this is now very cautiously being pointed out you know by a sum of Trump’s opponents I saw last night on Twitter Eckler we’re calling it now um that the DeSantis Super PAC uh was attacking Trump’s campaign manager their their Chief strategist over you know the amount of money that’s going to lawyers um but you know I bet this comes like way a little too way uh too late and after they’ve brought in nine figures um to to go to Trump’s various legal bills and to be used no doubt to influence people in his orbit and try to prevent them from you know speaking out about these various indictments I wonder for you mark Elias given the contact the history of what we know here when you see that Trump aligned groups continue to pay legal bills for quote friends and allies what that signals to you look I think it’s really troubling I think it’s something that Jack Smith’s working on getting to the bottom of because it’s not like you often you sometimes have a situation in which there’s a corporation it’s Executives or its employees wind up before grand juries and they pay the legal bills but they do it on a pretty agnostic basis this appears to be uh the legal fees are being paid sort of on a selective basis and so the question is are the legal bills being selected to be paid based on whether they are offering favorable or unfavorable testimony to the former president and I think that that is something along with some of the conflicts around the lawyers and the lawyers having lawyers and lawyers having clients who are adverse to other lawyers and other clients I I think that all of this is something Jack Smith is going to have to figure out

Reflections on Trump’s Campaign Finances

Implications of Trump’s Legal Expenditures

Trump’s reliance on OPM for funding his legal defense raises concerns about the use of funds for personal gain rather than the intended purpose of the donations. The complex web of political entities involved in managing these finances adds another layer of complexity to the issue.

Potential Legal Ramifications

The investigation into the Save America PAC and the selective payment of legal fees for allies and friends raises questions about potential fraud and misuse of funds. Special Counsel Jack Smith’s role in scrutinizing these activities highlights the seriousness of the situation.

Impact on Witness Testimonies

The use of funds to influence the testimonies of White House aides and other individuals involved in investigations further complicates the legal landscape. The allegations of interference in witness testimonies adds another layer of concern regarding the integrity of the legal process.

Conclusion

As we reflect on the intricate details of Trump’s campaign finances and legal expenditures, it is essential to consider the broader implications of these actions. What are your thoughts on the use of OPM for personal legal defense and the potential consequences of these financial decisions? Feel free to leave your comments below.

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